Growth Through Cultural Exposure.

The Business Infrastructure show. Scale Tales From the Ground Up. How to build a call center? Podcast Episode #213 Curing back office blues. Growth is not a bad thing. But too much growth, too fast presents a set of challenges often overlooked when discussing small businesses. The emphasis tends to center on the marketing and promotion necessary to grow your business, and not on the operations and business infrastructure needed to scale your business in a sustainable manner. These back office operations can make or break your business. The Business Infrastructure show provides solutions and real life stories to owners and operators of fast growing small businesses seeking practical tips for dealing with growth spurts. A few years after graduating from university, he accepted an offer to conduct training at a call center in Costa Rica. At 27 years old he decided to call Costa Rica home. That was over 20 years ago. And he never looked back. In this episode, Richard takes us on his journey as he leverages his advanced Spanish-speaking skills, business prowess, and emotional intelligence to build and scale Costa Rica’s Call Center from a one-seat to a 300-seat operation. While his friends pursued careers in fields like law, medicine, and technology, Richard Blank went in a completely different direction – language. In fact, his love of language and communications led him to study abroad for one semester in Spain. That experience changed the trajectory of his life. Discover how Richard used a cash-only approach to invest in the business infrastructure required to lay a foundation for sustainable growth, his tips for reducing attrition, and why he urges entrepreneurs to “act their wage.” Growth is not a bad thing. But too much growth, too fast presents a set of challenges often overlooked when discussing small businesses. The emphasis tends to center on the marketing and promotion necessary to grow your business, and not on the operations and business infrastructure needed to scale your business in a sustainable manner. These back office operations can make or break your business. Following a Path Less Traveled Richard, surely there's more to your story than this. Let's try that again. That's why you do the best interviews, Alicia. Thank you so much. How about this? When I was in high school and I graduated, most of my friends were going to Ivy League and studying law, medicine, engineering, and architecture. I myself decided to double down on languages. It was my favorite class. And at the University of Arizona, once again, being a communication major, I was able to focus on public speaking rhetoric and nonverbal communication. And so that was very important for me. Sometimes I kind of felt like a dreamer. and i was almost doing this alone but since my great-grandparents came from europe from romania russia germany and Poland, they came at the turn of the century. And so when they came to the United States in the early 20th century, and they learned English and were entrepreneurs, it was pretty much my strongest argument to my parents on what I was trying to do. Our family were nomads, we were risk takers. And for me, all I know is that I wanted some sort of adventure. And I know that by learning a second language, it would open many doors for me. And so my natural progression pretty much got me to where I am today. Growth Through Cultural Exposure Backpacking around Europe opened a whole new world for Richard. He learned the valuable lessons of evaluating and focusing on what really matters in life, as well as not taking certain things, experiences or people for granted. And what I figured out then was that the things that we hold so dear in the United States really didn't make a difference overseas. We're really just looking at your essence. So it just opened my mind. that there are other places in the world where I could learn and be accepted. And I guess my main thing, and I'm very proud of this, is that when you're 21 years old in Europe, all you want to do is party and have a good time, which I did. But if a party began at eight o'clock, what I made sure to do before that time was to see as many museums and buildings and as much artwork and architecture as I could. So at least I could put in my time to grow and see these incredible historical artifacts that made our cultures, our Western civilization. And so that was the year that I read more books and didn't watch television and really mastered Spanish. And so that was probably the year that I grew the most. https://youtu.be/qw09sFl1DZU https://youtu.be/Gpq-w_WWdn8 https://youtu.be/Cf1PDpZu67M Alicia Butler Pierre is the Founder & CEO of Equilibria, Inc. Her career in operations began over 20 years ago while working as an engineer in various chemical plants and oil refineries. She invented the Kasennu™ framework for business infrastructure and authored, Behind the Façade: How to Structure Company Operations for Sustainable Success. It is the world’s first published book on business infrastructure for small businesses. Alicia hosts the weekly Business Infrastructure podcast with a global audience across 60 countries. Equilibria, Inc. is an operations management firm specializing in business infrastructure for fast-growing organizations. Our mission is to provide access to tips, resources, and proven frameworks that revolutionize the way small businesses operate. We do that through original podcast episodes, blog posts, videos, presentations, workshops, and coaching sessions. The Business Infrastructure Podcast has accepted Richard Blank's invitation to join the audience for a solid discussion regarding starting a company from scratch in Costa Rica as an expat. Topics discussed with Richard advanced telemarketing strategy, conflict management, interpersonal soft skills, customer support, rhetoric, gamification, employee motivation, phonetic micro expression reading. Richard’s journey in the call center space is filled with twists and turns. When he was 27 years old, he relocated to Costa Rica to train employees for one of the larger call centers in San Jose. With a mix of motivational public speaking style backed by tactful and appropriate rhetoric, Richard shared his knowledge and trained over 10 000 bilingual telemarketers. Mr. Richard Blank holds a bachelors degree in Communication and Spanish from the University of Arizona and a certificate of language proficiency from the University of Sevilla, Spain. A Keynote speaker for Philadelphia's Abington High School 68th National Honors Society induction ceremony. In addition, inducted into the 2023 Hall of Fame for Business. Giving back to Abington Senior High School is very important to Mr. Blank. As such, he endows a scholarship each year for students that plan on majoring in a world language at the university level. Costa Rica’s Call Center (CCC) is a state of the art BPO telemarketing outsource company located in the capital city of San Jose, Costa Rica. Our main focus has been, and will always be to personally train each and every Central America call center agent so that we may offer the highest quality of outbound and inbound telemarketing solutions and bilingual customer service to small and medium sized international companies, entrepreneurs as well as fortune 500 companies. #RichardBlank #CostaRica #CallCenter #Outsourcing #Telemarketing #BPO #Sales #Entrepreneur #B2B #Business #Podcast #Leadgeneration #Appointmentsetting #businessinfrastructureshow https://costaricascallcenter.com/en/outbound-bpo-campaigns/ Introduction: Overcoming Challenges and Fears Have you ever wondered what it would be like to live or work in another country? Be honest. I know I have. It’s a big reason why my team operates remotely around the world. But it’s not the same as living in those countries. How do you get over the mental hurdles to try something different in your business when everyone is telling you, no, no? This is the Business Infrastructure Podcast, the show where we offer strategies, tactics, and resources to cure back office blues and keep your business operating as good on the inside as it looks on the outside. I’m your host, Alicia Butler-Pierre, and you’re about to hear from someone who set his fears aside, listened to his inner voice, and proved all the naysayers wrong when he started a business in another country. This episode is brought to you by Equilibria Incorporated, the company behind this podcast where we design scale-ready business infrastructure for fast-growing small businesses. The Path to Success: Humility and Dedication I think the greatest thing you can do in the beginning is to be very humble, appreciative. And if you, it's like the game of life. You need to start out in the tent and then you end up in the, in the mansion, but you go through your certain stages. And as long as you can keep pace where you act your wage and and you do it accordingly, you're going to be exceptionally successful. And most people love to hear about the story. They could care less about where I am today. They really want to know about the struggle. And I guess, Alicia, my last parting bit of advice is dedicated practice. And so if anybody really wants to master their craft, they have to put in the time off the camera when your friends aren't around, when you're by yourself. And so if you can invest that sort of time in yourself, you'll be more than prepared when the time comes to shine. The Special Sauce of Pinball in the Workplace These are such amazing machines, and they're usually older than the agents. And you and I both know that when you play these games on the Internet, it's one thing. But when you are with the machine, especially pinball, You can really feel it. And so to give these agents that sort of gaming experience is just, and it's free play as well. I don't charge them. But it's just really one of those special sauce things that we do here at Costa Rica's call center, which my opinion, Alicia, reduces attrition. Starting Small: Richard's Strategy of Buying Used We're back, and before the break, we learned about the humble beginnings of Costa Rica's call center and how Richard Blank, as founder and CEO, scaled his operations without outside investments. But how? Well, one thing he did in the beginning was buying used. That is, he strategically purchased either brand new or gently used furniture and computers from other call centers that were going out of business. Here's Richard. Scaling a Business Without Loans: Richard's Journey And over the course of six years, I saved enough money to be able to purchase a three floor building that can house 300 agents. And so I did this without any sort of loans or partners or mortgages. because I don't like paying interest. The year is 2008. Richard lands his first client and eventually grows and scales Costa Rica's call center from one seat to 150 on up to 300 seats. I'm sure you're wondering how he achieved this kind of scale in just six years without seeking outside investments. Don't go anywhere because after the break, Richard will share the details of how he did it and how he sustains it. You started your business because you believed you could make a difference. But now you have more demand than you can keep up with, and if you don't get your operations in order soon, you could lose everything you've worked so hard to build. The chaos is causing angry customers, bad reviews, failed audits, and more. Richard's Pinball Collection and Its Role in Company Culture And you know what? It was true. As I looked at Richard, he was dressed impeccably. Not sure if you noticed it, but he mentioned playing pinball. Here's another interesting fun fact about Richard. He owns the largest collection of American pinball machines in Costa Rica. For him, providing a place where his team can have fun on the job is equally as important as them providing quality service. After all, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. These are such amazing machines, and they're usually older than the agents. And you and I both know that when you play these games on the Internet, it's one thing. But when you are with the machine, especially pinball, You can really feel it. And so to give these agents that sort of gaming experience is just, and it's free play as well. I don't charge them. But it's just really one of those special sauce things that we do here at Costa Rica's call center, which my opinion, Alicia, reduces attrition.

Following a Path Less Traveled.

The Business Infrastructure show. Scale Tales From the Ground Up. How to build a call center? Podcast Episode #213 Curing back office blues. Growth is not a bad thing. But too much growth, too fast presents a set of challenges often overlooked when discussing small businesses. The emphasis tends to center on the marketing and promotion necessary to grow your business, and not on the operations and business infrastructure needed to scale your business in a sustainable manner. These back office operations can make or break your business. The Business Infrastructure show provides solutions and real life stories to owners and operators of fast growing small businesses seeking practical tips for dealing with growth spurts. A few years after graduating from university, he accepted an offer to conduct training at a call center in Costa Rica. At 27 years old he decided to call Costa Rica home. That was over 20 years ago. And he never looked back. In this episode, Richard takes us on his journey as he leverages his advanced Spanish-speaking skills, business prowess, and emotional intelligence to build and scale Costa Rica’s Call Center from a one-seat to a 300-seat operation. While his friends pursued careers in fields like law, medicine, and technology, Richard Blank went in a completely different direction – language. In fact, his love of language and communications led him to study abroad for one semester in Spain. That experience changed the trajectory of his life. Discover how Richard used a cash-only approach to invest in the business infrastructure required to lay a foundation for sustainable growth, his tips for reducing attrition, and why he urges entrepreneurs to “act their wage.” Growth is not a bad thing. But too much growth, too fast presents a set of challenges often overlooked when discussing small businesses. The emphasis tends to center on the marketing and promotion necessary to grow your business, and not on the operations and business infrastructure needed to scale your business in a sustainable manner. These back office operations can make or break your business. Following a Path Less Traveled Richard, surely there's more to your story than this. Let's try that again. That's why you do the best interviews, Alicia. Thank you so much. How about this? When I was in high school and I graduated, most of my friends were going to Ivy League and studying law, medicine, engineering, and architecture. I myself decided to double down on languages. It was my favorite class. And at the University of Arizona, once again, being a communication major, I was able to focus on public speaking rhetoric and nonverbal communication. And so that was very important for me. Sometimes I kind of felt like a dreamer. and i was almost doing this alone but since my great-grandparents came from europe from romania russia germany and Poland, they came at the turn of the century. And so when they came to the United States in the early 20th century, and they learned English and were entrepreneurs, it was pretty much my strongest argument to my parents on what I was trying to do. Our family were nomads, we were risk takers. And for me, all I know is that I wanted some sort of adventure. And I know that by learning a second language, it would open many doors for me. And so my natural progression pretty much got me to where I am today. https://youtu.be/qw09sFl1DZU https://youtu.be/Gpq-w_WWdn8 Alicia Butler Pierre is the Founder & CEO of Equilibria, Inc. Her career in operations began over 20 years ago while working as an engineer in various chemical plants and oil refineries. She invented the Kasennu™ framework for business infrastructure and authored, Behind the Façade: How to Structure Company Operations for Sustainable Success. It is the world’s first published book on business infrastructure for small businesses. Alicia hosts the weekly Business Infrastructure podcast with a global audience across 60 countries. Equilibria, Inc. is an operations management firm specializing in business infrastructure for fast-growing organizations. Our mission is to provide access to tips, resources, and proven frameworks that revolutionize the way small businesses operate. We do that through original podcast episodes, blog posts, videos, presentations, workshops, and coaching sessions. The Business Infrastructure Podcast has accepted Richard Blank's invitation to join the audience for a solid discussion regarding starting a company from scratch in Costa Rica as an expat. Topics discussed with Richard advanced telemarketing strategy, conflict management, interpersonal soft skills, customer support, rhetoric, gamification, employee motivation, phonetic micro expression reading. Richard’s journey in the call center space is filled with twists and turns. When he was 27 years old, he relocated to Costa Rica to train employees for one of the larger call centers in San Jose. With a mix of motivational public speaking style backed by tactful and appropriate rhetoric, Richard shared his knowledge and trained over 10 000 bilingual telemarketers. Mr. Richard Blank holds a bachelors degree in Communication and Spanish from the University of Arizona and a certificate of language proficiency from the University of Sevilla, Spain. A Keynote speaker for Philadelphia's Abington High School 68th National Honors Society induction ceremony. In addition, inducted into the 2023 Hall of Fame for Business. Giving back to Abington Senior High School is very important to Mr. Blank. As such, he endows a scholarship each year for students that plan on majoring in a world language at the university level. Costa Rica’s Call Center (CCC) is a state of the art BPO telemarketing outsource company located in the capital city of San Jose, Costa Rica. Our main focus has been, and will always be to personally train each and every Central America call center agent so that we may offer the highest quality of outbound and inbound telemarketing solutions and bilingual customer service to small and medium sized international companies, entrepreneurs as well as fortune 500 companies. #RichardBlank #CostaRica #CallCenter #Outsourcing #Telemarketing #BPO #Sales #Entrepreneur #B2B #Business #Podcast #Leadgeneration #Appointmentsetting #businessinfrastructureshow https://costaricascallcenter.com/en/outbound-bpo-campaigns/ Introduction: Overcoming Challenges and Fears Have you ever wondered what it would be like to live or work in another country? Be honest. I know I have. It’s a big reason why my team operates remotely around the world. But it’s not the same as living in those countries. How do you get over the mental hurdles to try something different in your business when everyone is telling you, no, no? This is the Business Infrastructure Podcast, the show where we offer strategies, tactics, and resources to cure back office blues and keep your business operating as good on the inside as it looks on the outside. I’m your host, Alicia Butler-Pierre, and you’re about to hear from someone who set his fears aside, listened to his inner voice, and proved all the naysayers wrong when he started a business in another country. This episode is brought to you by Equilibria Incorporated, the company behind this podcast where we design scale-ready business infrastructure for fast-growing small businesses. The Path to Success: Humility and Dedication I think the greatest thing you can do in the beginning is to be very humble, appreciative. And if you, it's like the game of life. You need to start out in the tent and then you end up in the, in the mansion, but you go through your certain stages. And as long as you can keep pace where you act your wage and and you do it accordingly, you're going to be exceptionally successful. And most people love to hear about the story. They could care less about where I am today. They really want to know about the struggle. And I guess, Alicia, my last parting bit of advice is dedicated practice. And so if anybody really wants to master their craft, they have to put in the time off the camera when your friends aren't around, when you're by yourself. And so if you can invest that sort of time in yourself, you'll be more than prepared when the time comes to shine. The Special Sauce of Pinball in the Workplace These are such amazing machines, and they're usually older than the agents. And you and I both know that when you play these games on the Internet, it's one thing. But when you are with the machine, especially pinball, You can really feel it. And so to give these agents that sort of gaming experience is just, and it's free play as well. I don't charge them. But it's just really one of those special sauce things that we do here at Costa Rica's call center, which my opinion, Alicia, reduces attrition. Starting Small: Richard's Strategy of Buying Used We're back, and before the break, we learned about the humble beginnings of Costa Rica's call center and how Richard Blank, as founder and CEO, scaled his operations without outside investments. But how? Well, one thing he did in the beginning was buying used. That is, he strategically purchased either brand new or gently used furniture and computers from other call centers that were going out of business. Here's Richard. Scaling a Business Without Loans: Richard's Journey And over the course of six years, I saved enough money to be able to purchase a three floor building that can house 300 agents. And so I did this without any sort of loans or partners or mortgages. because I don't like paying interest. The year is 2008. Richard lands his first client and eventually grows and scales Costa Rica's call center from one seat to 150 on up to 300 seats. I'm sure you're wondering how he achieved this kind of scale in just six years without seeking outside investments. Don't go anywhere because after the break, Richard will share the details of how he did it and how he sustains it. You started your business because you believed you could make a difference. But now you have more demand than you can keep up with, and if you don't get your operations in order soon, you could lose everything you've worked so hard to build. The chaos is causing angry customers, bad reviews, failed audits, and more. Growth Through Cultural Exposure Backpacking around Europe opened a whole new world for Richard. He learned the valuable lessons of evaluating and focusing on what really matters in life, as well as not taking certain things, experiences or people for granted. And what I figured out then was that the things that we hold so dear in the United States really didn't make a difference overseas. We're really just looking at your essence. So it just opened my mind. that there are other places in the world where I could learn and be accepted. And I guess my main thing, and I'm very proud of this, is that when you're 21 years old in Europe, all you want to do is party and have a good time, which I did. But if a party began at eight o'clock, what I made sure to do before that time was to see as many museums and buildings and as much artwork and architecture as I could. So at least I could put in my time to grow and see these incredible historical artifacts that made our cultures, our Western civilization. And so that was the year that I read more books and didn't watch television and really mastered Spanish. And so that was probably the year that I grew the most. Richard's Pinball Collection and Its Role in Company Culture And you know what? It was true. As I looked at Richard, he was dressed impeccably. Not sure if you noticed it, but he mentioned playing pinball. Here's another interesting fun fact about Richard. He owns the largest collection of American pinball machines in Costa Rica. For him, providing a place where his team can have fun on the job is equally as important as them providing quality service. After all, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. These are such amazing machines, and they're usually older than the agents. And you and I both know that when you play these games on the Internet, it's one thing. But when you are with the machine, especially pinball, You can really feel it. And so to give these agents that sort of gaming experience is just, and it's free play as well. I don't charge them. But it's just really one of those special sauce things that we do here at Costa Rica's call center, which my opinion, Alicia, reduces attrition.

The Power of Human Touch and Positive Escalation.

Beauty Of Colors podcast hosted by Cleanne Johnson. Exploring Expanding And Changing Lives with Richard Blank. Life experiences are definitely worth sharing with the world. You would ask, "WHY" should I share my story with the world. We are more similar, and our life experiences are basically the same in a different format. By you sharing your story, that helps to encourage others into navigations of rough waters. Now more than ever, people need someone else story to motivate them. People going through mental health issues, traumas and other problems need to know they are not the only ones going through it. Your story can save a life. Join Beauty of Colors Podcast and listen to these stories of people who have overcame trauma, anxiety, depression, mental health issues, suicide and more. Grow at changing your life and help others cope with difficult circumstances, especially during these times. Beauty Of Colors podcast hosted by Cleanne Johnson where the talk is about loving self, the power of I AM, getting out of the box, and helping others along their journey in life. Adapting to Costa Rican Culture and Finding Stability So how was that like when you moved to Costa Rica? How was the feeling and the culture and was it different? Well, that's a wonderful question. Costa Rica has an expression. They say Pura Vida, which means pure life. It's ecotourism. So you're talking about natural, beautiful rainforests with flowers and the plants and the natural beauty. of this paradise and so you're overwhelmed and after the honeymoon stage wears off and you realize you're living there you start to explore more places just not the touristy areas yeah and so when you're sitting underneath a palm tree by a waterfall with the love of your life having a wonderful day you you really become one with so many things and you shed some skin and you want more of it and so how is Costa Rica Well, I had to get past certain expectations and parents' guilt. Decided to make some roots there and learn the business from the inside out to give myself stability. And between me and you and even my mama sitting next to me, I needed a little bit more maturity in order to make certain decisions to live the rest of my life. These were things you had to make the full dedications. and to understand your limits. And I had to be exceptionally realistic. Life Shouldn't Be a Forced March we know that it's a distance, but it just doesn't have to be a forced march. You can wear comfortable shoes, have the wind in your back and maybe some currents in the water to move you along there. Certain times you're given natural gifts where the stars are aligned. And so I believe you should take advantage of those moments and you should embrace them. The Power of Human Touch and Positive Escalation And a lot of people are depending now on AI, which is omni-channel non-voice support like chats and emails and bots. I see that my friend is more gathering, gathering the information and then they bring it to us in the kitchen to cut, slice and dice and to serve it out this. I need that human touch. I will always press zero to speak with somebody because I might be disclosing something personal. I might be emotional. And I don't want latency of putting in a trouble ticket or having to keep repeating the information because the computer can't get my accent. Yeah, that's true. You know, I mean, come on. Sometimes you get a free dessert if you're nice. So there might be a very good chance that my situation not only could get resolved, but I'm going to teach you and your audience a million dollar secret. It's the positive escalation. When somebody assists me and lends a hand, I will make sure that their colleagues and supervisors hear about this either in writing or verbally. I'm not looking for the free cappuccino. It does happen. https://youtu.be/MG7MP9ossL4 https://youtu.be/PGNLBzKCiJg https://youtu.be/L7bvF_sR8pI https://youtu.be/kFpFTy2sXn0

Beauty of colors (Poems) These poems will lift your inner spirit, and transform your life, give you a sense of purpose, belonging an appreciation for beauty in and around you. This collection of poems will draw you to the core of the earth and make you realize you are special, unique and created by a creator being one with the earth. So, fuel yourself from these poems an arise to the top. Cleanne Lynn Johnson She is a talented and creative artist who immersed herself in acting and performing arts from age 5. Blessed with her storytelling prowess, she perfected the art by telling stories to her family, creating fictional characters who came to life through her words. Cleanne started writing short stories and poetry to express her feelings and found writing to be a safe haven. Through her podcast, Beauty of Colors, the author of Love My Colors, Beauty of Colors (poems), and Beauty of Life: 101 Inspirational Quotes, she loves to inspire people and listens to their stories. Deep in her heart, she believes everyone has a story to help change someone’s life. Thus, her podcast has become a medium for others to share their stories and experiences. A firm believer in continuous learning and development, she holds a Bachelor of Science in Dietetics and a Master’s in Public Health from Andrews University in Michigan and now works as a registered dietitian. When she is not busy working on her next literary project, Cleanne enjoys cooking, hiking, reading, sewing, and encouraging people from all different ethnicities that they are special, unique, and beautiful. Richard’s journey in the call center space is filled with twists and turns. When he was 27 years old, he relocated to Costa Rica to train employees for one of the larger call centers in San Jose. With a mix of motivational public speaking style backed by tactful and appropriate rhetoric, Richard shared his knowledge and trained over 10 000 bilingual telemarketers. Richard Blank has the largest collection of restored American Pinball machines and antique Rockola Jukeboxes in Central America making gamification a strong part of CCC culture.Richard Blank is the Chief Executive Officer for Costa Rica’s Call Center since 2008. Mr. Richard Blank holds a bachelors degree in Communication and Spanish from the University of Arizona and a certificate of language proficiency from the University of Sevilla, Spain. A Keynote speaker for Philadelphia's Abington High School 68th National Honors Society induction ceremony. In addition, inducted into the 2023 Hall of Fame for Business. Giving back to Abington Senior High School is very important to Mr. Blank. As such, he endows a scholarship each year for students that plan on majoring in a world language at the university level. Costa Rica’s Call Center (CCC) is a state of the art BPO telemarketing outsource company located in the capital city of San Jose, Costa Rica. Our main focus has been, and will always be to personally train each and every Central America call center agent so that we may offer the highest quality of outbound and inbound telemarketing solutions and bilingual customer service to small and medium sized international companies, entrepreneurs as well as fortune 500 companies. We encourage you to visit one of our call centers on your next personal vacation or business trip to Central America’s paradise, Costa Rica. While you are here, we would recommend taking an extra day of your trip to visit breathtaking virgin beaches, play golf next to the ocean, try your luck at deep sea fishing, explore tropical jungles, climb volcanos or just relax in natural hot springs. Come and see for yourself why call center outsourcing in Costa Rica is a perfect solution for your growing company and a powerhouse in the BPO industry. https://costaricascallcenter.com/en/outbound-bpo-campaigns/ #BeautyOfColorspodcast #CleanneLynnJohnson #RichardBlank #CostaRica #CallCenter #Outsourcing #Telemarketing #BPO #Sales #Entrepreneur #B2B #Business #Podcast #Gamification #CEO https://youtu.be/MG7MP9ossL4